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Unfortunately there are a few unscrupulous people out there who get in the way of honest folks trying to do business and enjoy their hobbies. Following are the names of some of those that have crossed MY path.



Richard Garcia

(Mail/UPS drop in NY)


Still no response, so here's the latest entry on the infamous "L,C & D" page.

Tue 11/14/2017 2:27 PM
Richard, if you’re still alive, you should go to my website and check out the “Liars, Cheats and Deadbeats” page. If I don’t hear from you, you’ll find the details of this entire transaction posted there. All it takes to avoid this an email saying that you need to back out of our deal. No penalty, no problem. But ignoring this will not make it go away. Of course if you are NOT alive, feel free to  remain silent.

No response. Waited 4 weeks then checked obituaries and Googled the name and last address but nothing came up. So sent final email above.

Thu 10/19/2017 2:55 PM
Just checking in to see where things stand. I’ve got your boxes packed & ready to go whenever it suits your schedule.
Be in touch,

Thursday, September 28, 2017 6:30 PM
Hi Ray, all good. In about 2 weeks or so I will contact you to make the arrangements

Thu 9/28/2017 10:23 AM
Not a problem, Richard...  Thanks much, glad it worked out!

Thu 9/28/2017 10:23 AM
Hi Ray, I would like to buy the 2 boxes from you but I cannot complete the transaction till the end of the second week of Oct - in about 3 weeks. If that is ok hold them for me if you cannot then that is ok. I have committed to a number of items over the next few weeks and need to gather some funds to pay for the boxes.
Let me know.

Mon 9/18/2017 6:17 PM
Also have an early (1930s) Western Metal-Piercing box. Will sell that for $100 more, $716.95 for both, shipped, if you want.
Pix to follow.

richardgarcia richardgarcia [mailto:richardgarcia@sympatico.ca]
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2017 2:18 PM
To: Ray Giles
Subject: Re: Win TSMG Box
Hi Ray,
Very nice box, I do not have one like that, $600.00 is the best you can do?????

Longview, WA


Nov 5, 2012

This will be short and sweet as I don't have time right now to fool w/ the whole list of dates & phone calls made to this guy. Suffice it to say that he phoned in an order for a box of Western .41 Long Colt priced at $75 + $12.95 UPS. As usual, I shipped it immediately against his word that payment would be sent within the "next day or two"--payment and shipment "crossing in the mail" so to speak. UPS shows delivery on Wed, Aug 15, with the addressee personally signing for it. Started phone calls Aug 23rd and placed numerous calls, until & including, yesterday, Nov 5th. Early on during that period, he answered the phone 3 times with different excuses each time. One time, Sept 18th, HE actually called ME--with another excuse but promising to pay "in a couple of weeks". That was 7 weeks ago and 5 weeks have now passed since the "couple of weeks" he asked for. During that 5 weeks he has refused to take or return calls. Hence, here is your latest
"Liar, Cheat & Deadbeat": FRANK AMADON!

Selma, CA

 May, 2012

Took phone order for 2 boxes of .38 S&W for a total, including shipping, of $87.95. Luis gave me his word that he would send the remittance by "the next day" which would've been 5/12. In return for that promise, I shipped immediately and UPS tracking confirms delivery 5/17/12. Beginning 5/26, and over the next few days, I phoned and left messages asking that he call me to discuss the matter. All such calls were ignored. An email (pasted below) was sent 5/31 and also went unanswered. A 2nd & final email, also pasted below, produced the same result. So, after 3 years of nothing to report on this page, we have a new "Liar, Cheat & Deadbeat": LUIS FLORES.


The 2 boxes of .38 S&W cartridges you ordered on May 14 were delivered by UPS on May 17. Our agreement was that you would send a check or M.O. for $87.95 within that same time frame. As of this date I have not received payment. Further, I have called the phone number you gave me 3 times this week, leaving word each time, but none of my calls have been returned. Please let me know if you have sent payment or, if not, when you intend to do so.

I look forward to hearing from you at your earliest convenience.
Ray Giles

After still receiving neither remittance nor response of any kind to phone calls and email, I am forced to assume that you are intent upon keeping the merchandise you ordered without paying for it, and which I sent you in good faith. Most people call that stealing. As a result your name and a summary of this transaction will be headlined on the "Liars, Cheats & Deadbeats" page of my website for all to see. I will also advertise the new posting on my homepage. Anyone who "Googles" or otherwise searches your name on the internet will be drawn to it as well. Unless I hear from you, this posting will take place on Wed, June 6, 2012, and will remain there until such time as I receive payment.
I am sorry it has come to this but you have left me no alternative other than legal recourse which, obviously, is not worth the effort or expense.
Ray Giles


Kevin R. Foxwell

kandkfox" on e-Bay

March/April, 2009.  While setting up at the Louisville Show on 3/6, the following email (excerpted) was rec'd at home & related to me by my wife:

Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 9:54 AM
To: ray@rtgammo.com
Subject: 99% "Minty" 38-40 box ammo
Hello Ray,
I very much would like to purchase the best box of 38-40 that you have on the website ($975.00) but can't just drop all that money at once.  Would you let me use a "Layaway" plan on that box?  Let me send payments to you and have you hold it for me until such time I pay it off? 
Kevin R. Foxwell

To which my wife replied:

From: Ray Giles
To: 'Kevin Foxwell'
Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 2:28 PM
Subject: RE: 99% "Minty" 38-40 box ammo
Kevin, I just talked to Ray and he has pulled the box off his table, but he would like to know how much you plan on putting down, and the time line of future payments.

And to which he immediately (3/6) replied:
Outstanding! I appreciate the gesture.  I am leaving for New Mexico tomorrow for 10 days and upon return shall send $375 down, then every two weeks will send another $300.  If you 'd like to check my background  go to kandkfox on e-Bay to see my 100% positive responses on over 400 transactions.  PLEASE CONFIRM THIS IS THE BEST BOX OF THE TWO HE HAS LISTED.
Kevin R. Foxwell

And Carolyn's reply:

   Kevin, I talked with Ray [and he] said...it is the right box. Is it possible to send a postdated check before you go to New Mexico?  The show calendar is short and when you leave a box off the table at a major show, you might miss the opportunity to make a sale.
   You know, Kevin, Ray has taught me that there are very few “deadbeats” out there in the gun/ammo world...[so]...I don’t think we need to check your references. 

How wrong we were! After attempting to contact him by phone 3 times during the week of March 16 (after the 10 days he was to have been gone) he neither answered the phone nor returned our calls.
On 3/30 I sent this email:

Kevin, I took this box off the table for both the L’ville and Baltimore shows (2 of my best shows of the year), as well as having marked it “sold” on my website, and I have been holding it for you since March 6. Since then, within the past 2 weeks, my wife has left word twice & I’ve left word once but none of our calls have been returned nor have any checks been received such as you had promised to send on or about 3/16 when you returned from NM. I would appreciate it if you’d let me know where we stand on this deal. Thx.
Ray Giles

And, again, no response. So here he is, laid bare for all to see, our latest DEADBEAT.



Mike Pickens,
Delta, PA, 17314


July, 2008. I bought & pd for 6 bxs of antique ammo, 2 bxs of which were described as follows (copied & pasted from his orig July 1st email):
                    1 box of 20 40-82 Winchester sealed in box
                    1 box of 50 1873 Winchester ammo The seal is still intact.
After negotiating a price he emailed the following statement, also copied & pasted from his (7/3) email:   I will hold the check until you are satisfied.
I sent the check and on 7/11 rec'd the following: Did you receive the ammo? I will be on the road this weekend and will check my e-mail often. Let me know.

To which I responded on 7/11:
Hi Mike,
Yes, just opened it this morning and left word on your phone message system around noon today.  Upon opening the 44-40 and 40-82 boxes found a problem: neither was sealed; in fact, the 44-40 box, while sealed along one side, is missing 2 shells and the rds in the 40-82 box have all been cleaned (meaning the rds are original but the condition isn't). So we do need to talk a bit whenever you get back. Be in touch & don't let this spoil your weekend--it's not something we can't make right.

Then, after getting no response, I wrote on 7/16:

 Ever since my last email (and 2 subsequent phone calls) ... I've heard nothing and am wondering what's going on. I did contact my bank yesterday & found you had cashed the $1300 check although you'd said that wouldn't happen till all was satisfied regarding our transaction. As I thought we had an agreement based on mutual trust I'm surprised & disappointed in your lack of response as well as the fact that the check was cashed before we discussed the exceptions we found in your shipment. Please be in touch.

My last email, 7/19:
.if I don't hear from you by noon Monday, 7/21, you will find the details of our transaction fully described there [on this webpage] by noon Tues.  I am sorry it has come to this; I always hate to admit when I have misjudged someone so badly.

Rick A. Hogue

Also d/b/a Rick Hogue Auctions
(ebay handle: "better-than-ezra")

Newark, OH, 43055

Feb, 2007. I bought & pd for ($299.15) early Winchester .22 Short Hol Pt box on ebay (item#130075347850). Listed (as is necessary on ebay) as empty box but when I emailed him to ask about the availability of the contents I rec'd the following answer:
[sic] original contents is still in the box. It is unused. I will be happy to GIFT the contents to the high bidder upon the high bidders request. Thanks." (I have hard copy of these emails as proof.)
Box arrived empty. Phone call to seller got promise to come up with the missing shells but they never showed up & further calls went unanswered/unreturned. His website sez he operates under "The Golden Rule". Yeah, right.
John H. Luh, Jr.
Delta, PA, 17314
Sept, 2006. Pd 50% of amount owed for shipment but skipped town owing the other half ($150).
Ray Giles - RTG Ammo - "Turning lead into gold".
Copyright © 2005 RTG Ammo. All rights reserved.
Revised: 11/18/17